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Welcome to the Ground & Root Podcast with Holistic Cancer Dietitian, Dionne Detraz. In this podcast we will explore science based & time tested holistic strategies that will enhance healing, prevent cancer, and ultimately help you have a long & healthy life.
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Hidden Link: Thyroid Health And Breast Cancer
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Imagine if your breast cancer prevention plan is missing the organ that sets the speed for cell growth & regulates apoptosis, powers immune energy, and helps with estrogen clearance. That’s the thyroid—quietly directing the processes that keep breast tissue healthy or tip it toward risk.
In today's episode we sit down with registered dietitian and functional endocrinology expert Lauren Papanos from Functional Fueling to connect the dots between thyroid hormones, breast health, and the oxidative stress that drives DNA damage when thyroid is too low or too high.
We break down why thyroid hormones matter far beyond “metabolism,” how iodine acts as both a building block and a local protector in breast tissue, and why sequencing is everything: replenish antioxidants first, restore mineral balance, then fine-tune iodine.
You’ll learn practical food strategies—like where to find iodine-rich foods, how to time crucifers so they don’t block iodine when stores are low, & how to enhance bile flow as a hidden lever for T4-to-T3 conversion and estrogen clearance.
Most importantly, we move past TSH-only testing. Lauren's go-to panel includes TSH; total and free T4; total and free T3; reverse T3; and thyroid antibodies (TPO, TG), with functional ranges that flag issues early:
- T4 <1.2 is a flag
- T3 <3 is a flag (<2.3 can cause breast changes)
- TSH >2 is a flag
We wrap with the foundations of where to start: eat enough, sleep well, right-size exercise, lower exposures, and even testing after big hormonal shifts like postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, or starting HRT.
If you’re ready to turn prevention goals into daily practice, press play, take notes, and share this with someone who still thinks “normal TSH” tells the whole story. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us which thyroid lab you’ll request next.
✨ Dive Deeper with Lauren ✨
AND If this conversation inspires you to get more clarity when it comes to reducing your risks for breast cancer... ⬇️
👉 Then I invite you to grab our on-demand workshop: Cracking The Code on Breast Cancer. Learn more here: https://groundandroot.com/breastcancerworkshop
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Setting The Stage: Beyond Guidelines
SPEAKER_00Hello everyone and welcome back to the Ground and Root Podcast. I'm your host and holistic cancer dietitian, Deon Detraz. And as many of you already know, one of my goals with this show is to really help us go beyond the standard cancer prevention guidelines so that we can really understand the deeper reasons why cancer grows. And as I've said many times before, the more we understand the why, the more we really have control over our risks and over prevention. And sometimes the why is not as obvious as you may think. Sometimes it has to do more with how well our organs are functioning or how our systems of cancer prevention are working. And it's not always obvious. So in today's episode, we are going to be diving into one of those systems that you may not even realize could be influencing your risk for cancer, especially breast cancer. And to help us explore this topic, I have a very special guest joining us, my friend and colleague, Lauren Papanos. Lauren is a registered dietitian. She's a board-certified force nutritionist and functional medicine expert who specializes in thyroids, hormones, and autoimmunity. She holds advanced certifications in functional endocrinology, environmental toxins, advanced blood chemistry, and is internationally licensed as a microimmunotherapy practitioner. She's been featured in Forbes, Shape, Insider, and National TV. And she runs her private practice and hosts the Strength in Hormones podcast. She's a very busy lady. So I am so grateful that she's taking some time to be with us here on the show. Lauren, welcome. I'm so happy to have you here with us today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Dion. Thank you for the invitation. I'm so excited for our conversation. I feel like this is a very important topic that needs to have a conversation around it. And I appreciate you creating this platform for so many patients out there to understand all the things that you mentioned in the intro. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So we're gonna dive in. But before we do, I just want to make sure people also know a little bit more about you. I gave kind of the general, like the bio, but tell us a little bit more about you and your background and then the work that you're currently doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you gave a good overview of my specialties and kind of background on things, but similar to you, you know, my work is really in helping individuals understand the root causes of what's driving their complex health challenges and chronic health conditions. My focus is more so in the endocrine side of things. So we work with a lot of individuals that have thyroid conditions like hypothyroidism, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, hypothalamic amenorrhea, polycystic ovary syndrome, insulin resistance, but then also autoimmune conditions too, because there is a very large crosstalk between the immune system and the endocrine system, which you'll learn a little bit more about in today's episode. So that's an area that we really support individuals with getting to the root cause of figuring out what's causing these diseases to onset really and drive the progression of the diseases to where it's driving symptoms. You know, a lot of our patients are dealing with symptoms like chronic fatigue and hair loss and chronic digestive issues, infertility, and really just like this state of chronic inflammation is really the easiest way to explain it, where it's really debilitating and impact impacting their quality of life to, you know, show up as the best version of themselves. So it's giving them the answers, giving them the solutions and strategies to be able to get their health back on track and give them the tools for how to continue to stay strong and healthy and improve their quality of life moving forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's so important. And I was thinking to this, I will in full transparency, the thinking about the thyroid as it relates to cancer and not just like thyroid cancer, but you know, thinking about hormones, I've already been like obviously sort of immersed in the hormone world, especially with breast cancer and hormone-driven cancers, but not specifically the thyroid. And it really kind of, which is what we're gonna dive into more today. But I just wanted to preface it by me just anecdotally in my practice working with a lot of women who were either moving through breast cancer or had recently finished a treatment for breast cancer, and realizing that many of them, like not just a few, more than half, probably, also had thyroid issues and thyroid stuff that had happened in the years leading up to their breast cancer diagnosis. And I couldn't help but start to wonder like, there's gotta, there's gotta be a reason here, like, why is this happening? Like, it seemed random to me, but then the more I started diving into it, I was like, oh, there's actually a connection here. So this is why I'm so excited we're gonna talk about it because I don't think that this is actually spoken about enough. And I don't know that a lot of women who have thyroid challenges even know that it's a potential risk factor for not just breast cancer, for other cancers too. So I really want us to dive into it, but I also want to be mindful that maybe not everybody who's coming into this podcast right now, we have all the same understanding around like what the thyroid is and what it even does. So maybe we should just start at the beginning, give us just like a little 101, biology 101. Tell us about the thyroid and what is it doing in our bodies.
Thyroid 101: Speed And Cell Death
SPEAKER_01No, I totally agree with you, Dion. And I actually stumbled into the thyroid because of the same reason where I was dealing with all of these endocrine conditions and realizing that everyone had the same a similar common denominator, which was really the thyroid dysfunction. And nobody knew that the thyroid dysfunction was at play because our Western medical system doesn't do a great job of providing the preventative strategies for understanding what's happening within your thyroid. Let's just do like a brief overview of what the thyroid does and what markers we're looking at that indicate that there's thyroid dysfunction at play. So the thyroid is a gland that's located in your neck. It is really responsible for controlling all speed and growth processes in the body. And that's where its role in cancer really becomes important because when we think about cancer, we're thinking about abnormal cell growth and issues with apoptosis or cell death. And the thyroid is actually the control hub for regulating cell growth and apoptosis or cell death. Because of that, the thyroid, I always explained, is responsible for pretty much any growth process in the body. So the thyroid, we have thyroid receptors all over our body. We have thyroid receptors in our ovaries, in our breasts, and our brain, and our liver, and our gut, literally everywhere. And those thyroid receptors, thyroid hormones bind to, and those thyroid hormones control the speed of how quickly food moves through our digestive system, how efficiently our body detoxifies and even moves harmful estrogens out, which we'll talk about further today. Our thyroid controls the growth of things like our hair, our nails, even reproduction, the growth of a baby. You have to have adequate thyroid hormones to be able to conceive and to carry a baby all the way through pregnancy. The thyroid is important for mitochondrial function. So our mitochondria are what power energy production. So when we think about the immune system, in order for our immune system to function optimally, we have to have enough energy for that to happen, right? We need energy to fund all of the different organ processes in our body. So when we don't have enough thyroid hormones, what happens is that our mitochondria slow down. So all of these energy processes in the body just take a nap, if you will, right? And are running on a much at a much slower pace. And so when that happens, immune function is running much slower. And there's things that can happen within our immune system that can also cause this down regulation to occur. But really, the thyroid is controlling all these speed processes. And our thyroid is very sensitive to different types of what we call like oxidative stressors that stress our thyroid. So anything that's going to be a stressor on the body is going to really stress our thyroid activity. So it's always a really good indicator of if the body's in a stress position and how well the body is responding to its environment. I always think of the thyroid as a really good gauge of how our body and the environment are communicating with one another. So traditionally, when we go to the doctor and you get a thyroid panel done, TSH is what's very commonly ran, at least in the United States. I know you're in France, Dion. I'm not sure how it differs, but you know, we do work with patients internationally sometimes. And I find it's pretty similar in Europe, Canada, you name it. And TSH is what stands for thyroid stimulating hormone. And so this is actually not a thyroid hormone. This is a hormone that comes from our pituitary gland and our brain. And its job is to just communicate down to our thyroid and tell the thyroid how many hormones to make. But then the process of making thyroid hormones actually doesn't stop in the thyroid. Our thyroid is where the production initiates. But then, in order to get those thyroid hormones into the form that's what derives all of these speed processes and the apoptosis, that cell death process, those thyroid hormones have to convert over to their active usable form. And that is where that happens peripherally in other organs, particularly the gut and the liver. And so that's where all these body systems really connect. And when we think about okay, what's driving this thyroid dysfunction, we have to look at what else is happening in the gut, what's happening in the immune system, what's happening in the liver, what's happening in all these other areas that are then causing the thyroid to downregulate and not work optimally.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's a lot, Lauren. I mean, it's great. You did such a good job explaining all of that. But if that's the first time you've heard, oh my gosh, I did not realize the thyroid was responsible for so many things, right? Like you might, that may just have blown your mind a bit. It's almost, I mean, I don't want to give it any titles, but it's like this master controller that it's like involved in really almost every system, it sounds right in our bodies. And when we think about the systems that are so important when it comes to cancer prevention, certainly the immune system, the microbiome, your detoxification systems, the thyroid is integral, it sounds, in all of those systems, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And especially that T3 form, which is the active thyroid hormone. And that's where functional medicine really comes in because that's where we're looking at understanding where are your T3 levels. Conventionally, that's not something that's looked at. It's just TSH. So that doesn't tell us anything about these cancer prevention systems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's actually really good to know. So I want to let's make sure we circle back to that towards the end because I think that could be a really important take-home message for people is just what should be part of your regular monitoring, whether you've had cancer before or not. And thinking about asking for some of those thyroid tests are going to be just as important as like checking glucose and right, your other kind of standard markers that we're looking at. So we'll come back to that. But let's continue the conversation around thyroid function and how it influences these different systems. And as we move towards this idea of cancer risk, first can you explain a little bit about why? So thyroid, so the thyroid is responsible for cell growth, for speed. We often think of it as like metabolism. I think that's probably maybe the more commonly understood, oh, I'm having trouble losing weight. There's something wrong with my thyroid. Like when really there's just so many other things that could be right that the thyroid is responsible for. But I think in just layman's terms, like that's what we think of the thyroid for. Let's translate that into with like breast health in particular. Like, why would the health of your thyroid impact the health of your breasts?
Low Vs High Thyroid Risks
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So to your point, the first way that this is connected is through that cell growth and apoptosis process. So when we don't have enough thyroid hormones and we have low thyroid activity, which in the disease state is called hypothyroidism, but technically could even just be that there's low levels of thyroid activity. Generally, the research shows somewhere on the lower end of the reference range of T3 levels, which is typically below 2.3, is where we see decreased thyroid, essentially cell growth processes and apoptosis or that cell death that's happening and an increase in oxidative stress. And as I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, oxidative stress is a big trigger for cancer because when there's oxidative stress in the body, this generates free radicals and causes damage to our DNA. And then that's where these mutations in cells occur. So it's really important that we have adequate thyroid hormones to be able to control that process. And when we don't have enough thyroid hormones, then it's going to actually slow down how our mitochondria function. And then we can have more of this oxidative stress that's generated. And that oxidative stress can then target that breast tissue. Your thyroid hormones also play a really intimate relationship with breast tissue, mainly through the role of iodine. That's going to be one of the key pieces. Iodine is a mineral that's actually responsible for making thyroid hormones. But we store the most iodine in our body, both in our thyroid and in our breast tissue, which is interesting. A lot of people don't realize that. You store a little bit in your ovaries as well. But there's research to show that people that have lower iodine levels have an increased risk of fibrocystic breast as well as tender breasts and have more breast pain. And there's also some research to correlate that with increased risks of breast cancer, that there is correlation between that iodine deficiency, which often is what drives thyroid deficiency. We know that a low iodine state can actually be what causes hypothyroidism because that iodine is needed to make adequate thyroid hormones. Also, as I mentioned, the thyroid is responsible for metabolism and clearance in the liver. And majority, I think the stat is about 90% of breast cancer cases are hormone-sensitive, whether it's either estrogen or progesterone. And thyroid hormones are essential for regulating estrogen metabolism, essentially helping our body clear harmful estrogens through our phase one, phase two, and phase three liver detox pathways. So if we don't have enough good thyroid hormones, then that whole clearance slows down. And then more of those bad estrogens can get recirculated. And when those estrogens recirculate, now you can have again more of these DNA mutations and more of the free radical damage that can occur that can increase your risk of these hormone-sensitive cancers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So just to clarify, does this seem to happen more so when thyroid hormone is low? Like when function is low versus high? Would there be a risk if you had, let's say, hyper thyroidism? Or like what would be the difference there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good question. So in both situations, but for different reasons. So in the low situation where there's low thyroid activity, there can be an increased risk because there is oxidative stress that occurs when thyroid hormones are low because mitochondria aren't working as efficiently. And the process of our body making energy, we call it the electron transport chain. For any of you science nerds out there, there can be electrons that leak. So the electron transport chain can become leaky. And when that happens, these free radicals get leaked out, and that's what drives the oxidative stress. So that happens when there's not adequate thyroid hormone activity. However, when there's excess thyroid hormone activity, that can also generate oxidative stress because now the electron transparent chain is moving too quickly and cell growth is happening too rapidly. So this is something that can be really important for individuals that have hyperthyroidism or what we call Graves disease, which is the autoimmune version of hyperthyroidism. Hyperthyroidism and Graves disease are much less common than is hypothyroidism. I would say I see hyperthyroidism in about one in 20 cases in my practice. So much less common, but definitely can be a contributing risk factor for this abnormal cell growth and apoptosis process to happen.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That's good to know. So really either extreme could be an issue. Yeah. For slightly different like mechanisms, but similar outcomes.
SPEAKER_01Totally. Yeah. Both through oxidative stress and then the cell growth apoptosis process.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I want to go back a little bit to what you were saying about iodine because this also is wasn't until I started diving into this potential thyroid link that I came across the iodine piece too. And I was like, oh, and then so that sort of shifted my thinking around coaching when it comes to iodine and checking iodine levels and things like this. So I'm curious if you can explain a little bit more about so you did a great job of explaining like why iodine is important in like for making thyroid hormone, right? And then you said it is also stored in the breast tissue. Does it have a role to play in the breast tissue itself outside of the thyroid piece?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. It does. Yeah, iodine is needed within breast tissue. Like I mentioned, it is stored mostly in breast tissue and in the thyroid, but iodine is responsible for how breast cells grow and also for preventing these fibrocystic breast changes. So it's very important for the breast growth process to happen normally. And when women are iodine deficient, both the thyroid and the breast tissue become more susceptible to that oxidative stress and more of this estrogen dominance. So there is a very intimate relationship between iodine and estrogen balance. And we know that iodine is actually protective of estrogen dominance and also of improving estrogen metabolism. They there's research that shows that women that have lower iodine levels have an increased risk of fibrocystic breast disease, like I mentioned. And this has been linked then with women that have a higher risk of fibrocystic breast disease to having a higher risk of breast cancer. So it's very protective as an antioxidant within the breast tissue, but also for that normal breast tissue growth process to happen.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's helpful. And then do you feel like that's a it's a mineral that's easy to monitor with blood work? Or like what would be the best, what would you suggest of like monitoring iodine? Is that something that you could just throw on a like a lab panel or what what do you prefer?
Testing Iodine And Managing Risk
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so iodine is a very tricky one because it is both an antioxidant and a pro oxidant. So similar to this thyroid situation, it's very much a Goldilocks mineral where we want just enough to be able to regulate these processes, but not too much, because if we have too much, then it's going to drive more of this oxidative stress. So we have to be very careful with it. Utilizing it through food sources is generally safe. But when we start to utilize it at therapeutic levels, typically through supplementation or high dose food sources, we want to make sure that we know your read on where iodine levels are. There's unfortunately no 100% accurate way to know your iodine stores. It's just a very poorly tested mineral. So the most accurate way would be through urine. And it's called a urinary, 24-hour urinary iodine excretion. But essentially, you are collecting your urine over the course of 24 hours to see how much is excreted. And based off that excretion ratio, tells us if your body is deficient, if your body's using up a lot of iodine. There's also an old, it's not again 100% accurate, but follows a similar principle, which is called the iodine skin patch test, where you put iodine, you paint it on your arm and you put it there, you watch it for 24 hours. If your body absorbs all that iodine in, then that indicates deficiency. If that orange, which is the color of iodine, is still on the skin 24 hours later, then that would indicate that you are in an iodine replenished state. Blood testing is another option, which I typically also do in practice. I don't use it as the be-all end-all, but I use it because it's the most accessible. It's a lot easier than doing the 24-hour iodine, and it gives us some insights into what's happening with iodine levels. The one thing that I always want to look at alongside iodine is other mineral status and antioxidant and oxidative stress status. So before I always start someone on iodine, I'm always looking at is there oxidative stress? What are their oxidase LDL markers? What are their CRP cytokine levels? What are their myeloperoxidase markers, which is an inflammatory marker within the immune system, ferritin levels that can give us insight into oxidative stress as well. And then do we have enough sodium, magnesium, selenium, glutathione within the body? We always want to make sure that before we start on something that could be a prooxidant like iodine, that we flooded the body with antioxidants first. Because when we think about this oxidative stress situation, it's all about balance of do we have enough antioxidants to combat the free radicals that our body's exposed to? And if we don't, then that's when the oxidative stress causes the DNA damage. If we have enough of those antioxidants, that's when we add a little bit of oxidative stress. It can actually be supportive for the body and the body can actually adapt to that stressor.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That's actually really helpful to hear because I would think too that somebody just listening to this would be like, oh, I tend to have low thyroid. I know that perhaps I have risk for breast cancer or I've had it before. Maybe I should just start taking iodine. I think it's good to have some parameters around. Now, like you said though, food sources would be fine to just be more mindful about including iodine-rich foods. But then some of these other checks would be really important to do too.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, especially if you're someone that has a history of chronic inflammation, autoimmunity, cancer, I would make sure that we are checking antioxidants or that you're at least, like I said, replenishing antioxidant reserves before starting on iodine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. That's great to know. Because there are some issues too with having not just too much iodine, I think, in what you described the prooxidant state, but I know with like hyperthyroidism, they're often encouraged to avoid even like iodide salt, even like iodine in your food, right? So it's like you said, it's really trying to find that sweet spot, that perfect amount.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because the iody is what so T4 and T3, which is our thyroid hormones, that's the number of iodine molecules that are attached to the amino acid tyrosine. So T4 is tyrosine attached to four iodine molecules, and T3 is tyrosine attached to three. So in the state of hyperthyroidism, someone has too much T4 and T3. So if you add more iodine into the system, you actually increase more of the thyroid hormone activity and more in the thyroid hormone production.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. This is super helpful. So if somebody was like, okay, I want to at least, let's say I'm not hyperthyroid. I know I don't have that risk factor or that concern with iodine. And maybe I'm going to get some checks done. But in the meantime, I want to at least make sure I'm starting to consume iodine. So other than iodized salt, which is maybe the more commonly known one, what are some of the other foods that are rich in iodine that you would recommend?
Food Sources, Goitrogens, And Timing
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So anything from the sea is going to provide you with the most iodine. That's really where we get it. Natural sources would be things like sea vegetables, so kelp, nori seaweed, dulce flakes, those are all rich sources. Then you've got your seafood. So any seafood options would fall into that category. But then also eggs and dairy are also pretty rich sources of iodine too. But so if you're looking at a more concentrated source, something that I like to have clients do if they want to start with food sources is just use a dehydrated sea vegetable. So you can purchase kelp granules or dulcey flakes, and they don't really taste like much. They're just like a very natural little bit of salty taste. And you can add a little sprinkle into eggs when you're cooking them. And it's just a great way to help provide a little bit more. Another thing we want to be cautious with on the situation of iodine is goitrogens, which a lot of people, particularly if someone has estrogen-positive breast cancer, maybe is consuming a lot of because goitrogens are what are found in cruciferous vegetables that are really helpful for that estrogen metabolism process. But if you have an excess of goitrogens and there's not enough iodine there, it actually depletes us of iodine even further. So generally, when I'm doing iodine replenishment, I'm very cautious with how much goitrogen someone is incorporating into their diet, especially raw cruciferous vegetables, because when they're raw, more of those goitrogens are active. When you cook them, they do denature a little bit. But also when you cook them, you lose some of the sulfurifane and things that help with the estrogen metabolism process. So I just want to mention that because it's an important message for anyone who maybe is trying to incorporate those types of foods for breast cancer prevention.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, 100%. Because that's usually one of the first food groups that we're focusing on more, right? It's sort of help clear and detoxify estrogen. So then just to clarify that point, what is it a scenario where you would want to make sure you're eating them separately from each other, or like even in the same day, for example, we'd have to be careful to not have cruciferous and like iodine-rich together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Even in the same day, those goitrogens can block the iodine absorption. Once you get into an iodine-replenished state, you're in the clear. You're okay. So we really have to replenish iodine first. And the same thing goes for any of your other halogens as well. And iodine is technically a halogen, but anything that is a high fluoride source, a high chlorine source, a high bromide source, those are all halogens that do the same thing. So halogens and cruciferous are all in that same family where it's like iodine replenishment first, then maybe a little bit of these halogens and a little bit of the cruciferous to be able to get some of the benefits of them. So helpful.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Lauren. Okay. So in addition to let's like move on from the iodine piece, what are maybe just a few other things? Like, what would be your go-to recommendations for someone to support better thyroid health, which would then like in turn support better breast health and reduced cancer risk?
Core Thyroid Support Strategies
SPEAKER_01Yeah, first and foremost is if you haven't already taken a body systems approach to understand what's driving the oxidative stress and inflammation in the immune system, like that has to happen as top tier. That has to be the foundation of where we start first. Because as I mentioned at the beginning, the thyroid is a response tool to dysfunction that's happening in the body. So when we see thyroid dysfunction, it's really telling us look deeper. There's imbalances happening in the liver, in the gut, in micronutrient status. And it's just really a signal for us to go deeper. So we want to definitely do that dive. The thyroid is also very sensitive to these different immune triggers, things like mycotoxins for mold, environmental toxins, even viral reactivations. Like if you've had things like Epstein Mar or Mono in the past, those can all very easily influence our thyroid activity. So that of course is not a simple response or a simple way to start with things. What I really mentioned is the foundation, because you can only patch together thyroid support so much without addressing that as the foundation. And exercise and stress also go into that too, because those also gener, they're good. Exercise is good for you, but in excess, it also generates free radicals and oxidative stress. So that's an area that we definitely want to explore and make sure is within the right balance for you. Secondly, would be more antioxidants. My thing I always say to clients is flood the body with antioxidants. You need way more antioxidants than you think you do, especially if you are in a low or high thyroid state, because there is more oxidative stress. So making sure that we have adequate polyphenols like leafy greens and berries and green tea, but also other antioxidants that our thyroid specifically utilizes, like things that help us make more glutathione. The thyroid utilizes a lot of glutathione and superoxide dismutase, which are these internal antioxidants. But when our body runs out of those, our body turns to external antioxidants like foods that are rich in sulfur, like onions and garlic and other types of protein sources that give us those amino acids that help our body make more of that glutathione. So we want to make sure that we have a surplus of those antioxidants and maybe even looking at supplementation of some of those to help with things. Then I would say restoring mineral balance, antioxidants first, like I said, but then iodine. We definitely want to make sure that we have adequate iodine on board because if you don't have enough iodine, your body can only store your body only has so much in storage. And once it runs out, which our storage is about two weeks worth. So once you run out of that storage, if you're not eating enough of it, you're just going to be downregulating the amount of those thyroid hormones that are being made. So definitely making sure that we have lots of minerals present. And then I would say supporting liver detoxification and bile flow. Bile is a substance that helps our body break down and digest fats. It comes from our gallbladder, but it's also really important for our thyroid function, not only in helping our body detoxify, which is a key piece to thyroid function, but also actually in the direct conversion of T4 over to T3. And most people that have low thyroid function have sluggish bile flow. And that's part Of some of these like detox issues that are at play. So we want to make sure that we have good, healthy bile flow and we can support that with bitter foods like arugulas and dandelion and beets and apple cider vinegar, those are all great ways to be able to get more of that bile flow. And then finally, I would say like just making sure energy balance is in place because if you're under-eating, overexercising, not sleeping enough, and the body's in an energy deficient state, your body's going to downregulate thyroid activity just as a byproduct of there not being enough energy on. Like I always tell people, the hormones are a nice to have, right? Like our body is going to divert resources towards the immune system. And then whatever's left over gets put towards things like our reproductive system and thyroid system. So if there is not enough energy, we're not eating enough, we're burning too much through exercise and not refueling properly, or we are not sleeping enough, your thyroid's going to be the first thing that takes a hit from that. And that's going to be a direct reflection of those habits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's such a it's such a good reminder, too, of like when you're not something as simple as just making sure you're eating enough nutritious food, even like regard regards of the specific pieces that we're trying to get in, like iodine-rich foods, but just eating enough food that you're right. Like your the energy is going to be diverted to the most important systems to keep you alive today, versus what's going to help you a month, six months, a year from now. Or I always think of this too. I know you work with people who may have issues with fertility, but that's like the first thing, right? Like if you're not eating enough, your body isn't, it doesn't have capacity to try to make a baby. It's got to keep you alive first, right? So that's such a good reminder that sometimes you just need to start there and then get more detailed. Okay. I wanna, we're gonna wrap it up soon, but I wanted to ask you. So let's just say it's a general rule of thumb. Yeah, general rule of thumb. Even if you've not been diagnosed with a th with a thyroid concern, do you feel like this is something that should probably be on people's just annual checks? Because I know that doctors are not always doing this unless you're asking or they suspect there might be something wrong with their thyroid. Are you they actually monitoring? Do you feel like these blood values should just be like at least once a year, we're checking what? TSH, T4, T3. What would you recommend for just monitoring?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. T3 needs to be part of that picture, but it really doesn't make sense to test T3 unless you have the full thyroid picture to understand, okay, what's the bottleneck here? So I would say, as a good rule of thumb, is TSH, total and free T4, total and free T3, and reverse T3, as well as TPO and TG antibodies. That really gives us the full picture of what's happening in the thyroid. When your body makes T4, it has two different pathways it can convert down to. Majority should go down to T3, but when our body is in a high stress state because of different things happening internally or because of stress itself, our body deactivates that T3 over to reverse T3. So typically, physicians don't like to run it, especially if you have recently undergone like a surgery or you've been hospitalized, because they assume that your reverse T3 is going to be high because your body is deactivating over because of that stress response. But if you're in a non-acute situation where there isn't something like a stressor that's happening acutely in the body, then it is a helpful indicator to tell us why there may not be adequate levels of that free T3. And then you have those thyroid antibodies. And those aren't something that you need to test every single time, maybe that you check your thyroid, unless you're making you're implementing strategies to address them, but are good to at least check in on every year, maybe, um, to know if the thyroid issues are stemming from the immune system. Because in the situation of Kashimoto's thyroiditis, which is autoimmune hypothyroidism, or Graves' disease, which is autoimmune hyperthyroidism, the hormonal dysfunction within the thyroid is coming because of the immune system's molecular mimicry where it's attacking the thyroid cells and destroying them. So it's not because there is necessarily this like stress response that's causing the thyroid dysfunction. It's because of the immune system's overdrive that's causing the hormone dysfunction. And so if we know that there's thyroid antibodies, our approach to how we address the low thyroid activity is different, at least initially. And also, generally in the early stages, if you have just found out you have thyroid antibodies, we can slow down that progression and we can stop that thyroid cell destruction from happening. And that can actually prevent you from going on to then developing hypothyroidism. So if it's caught early enough, you may never deal with these low thyroid issues that are then impacting the breast changes that we're talking about in today's episode.
SPEAKER_00That's super helpful. Okay. So this is helpful. So I'm thinking about just next steps for people. Let's say you do this thyroid panel, and obviously, if anything looks amiss, if things look low, if things look high, are you just using kind of general? I mean, I know because sometimes with functional medicine, we take tighter ranges on things. Are you just looking at like general sort of normal ranges for these things or for these values? Or are you really looking at more optimal ranges for T4, T3, TSH, et cetera?
Labs That Actually Matter
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a good question because the ranges are very broad, especially for the thyroid. There can be, there's a very minute change that's going to happen within your levels when the body's in a stress response. So for example, T4 range goes all the way from like 0.9, depending on the lab, all the way up to the twos. Really anything that's below a 1.1, 1.2 is a flag for concern. So when we start to get in the one, the low one or even below one range of T4, that's telling us that there's some T4 imbalances and low three, low T4 issues at play. T3, really anything functionally below three is where we start to be concerned. The research, however, shows that some of these breast changes occur more so in the 2.3 or below range. So if anyone is below three, I'm thinking, okay, we've got to start to take measures to start to get that thyroid activity back up. But if they're below 2.3, I'm definitely in more of a concerned position, especially as we talk about breast cancer risk. And TSH is typically going to be just a direct response to low T4 and T3. So over time, if we have low levels of these hormones, then our brain gets a feedback loop. Oh, there's not enough thyroid hormones, stimulate the brain to stimulate down the thyroid to make more of them. And then that's what raises the TSH levels. So for a lot of people, it can be confusing because a high TSH is actually indicative of low thyroid function, not a high thyroid function. So when we talk about TSH, we know that individuals that are the most asymptomatic have a TSH that's between 0.5 to 2. So really anything above two, we start to wonder what's going on. But the reference range typically goes as high as 4.5. So if you're anywhere between that two to 4.5 range, which is a really big range, your doctor's not going to say anything to you. It's typically not until you get, I've even seen patients, they're as high as six before their doctor starts to wonder what's going on. But we really need to start thinking about what's happening deeper rooted in the body once you start seeing that TSH flag above two and the T4 and T3 start to drop below one and three.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is so helpful. Thank you for that. Hopefully you guys were jotting those notes down. I'll make sure it's in the show notes too, though. Don't worry. Okay. So moving forward, if there's any thyroid concern, and let's say as an initial step, it could be going through the things you just recommended, right? Making sure you're eating enough, thinking about what stressors you're under, are there some oxidative stressors, are there things that that you already know or you like intuitively suspect this is probably wearing me down and I can spend put some attention on it. Bringing in more antioxidant-rich foods, bringing in more mineral-rich foods, especially iodine, I think those are things that everybody can start with and just to help support good thyroid health and consequently good breast health. But what I also want to say is in case you're listening, and this has been something you've been struggling with for a long time, whether you've had breast cancer before or not, but you're like, yeah, my thyroid has not been normal for years, which is often the case when I see women in this scenario. What would be the next step for them to even connect with you and really get to the deeper root causes of what's happening with their thyroid and take steps to remedy this long-term issue?
SPEAKER_01Definitely a great starting place, especially if anyone has those labs and wants to know they're in the right reference range. I have a free guide called the thyroid inflammation lab decoder guide. And it'll break down for you like what are these optimal ranges within thyroid hormones, but then other markers that play into how our thyroid functions and really help you glean some insight into if inflammation could be blocking your thyroid from functioning optimally. So that would be a great next step resource. I'm happy to share that with you, Dion, for any of your listeners that want to take advantage of that. And then if you are just looking to understand like how to really eat to support your thyroid function, then we have a program called Functional Thyroid Foundations. It's a go-it-your-paste tip course where you're going to learn the types of food sources, the food pairings, how to know how much you need to eat for thyroid function, how to replenish iodine reserves, how to support antioxidant status, all of those things that I alluded to in today's episode are in that program. And then for anyone who's been dealing with a thyroid dysfunction and really feels like there's some deeper root causes at play, which I mentioned is like that step one that has to happen, right? Go deeper, understand what's causing the oxidative stress and the chronic inflammation. That's really what we do in our one-on-one program where we do the advanced diagnostic testing and really working with you one-on-one to be able to address those imbalances. Perfect.
SPEAKER_00So we'll make sure we have links to all of those things below in the notes so that you guys can move forward on your thyroid health and knowing that by taking steps towards improving thyroid health, you are also helping to reduce your risk of breast cancer too, or risk of recurrence if you've had it before. And this is an important root cause or reason that is not like in the mainstream media, right? Like when we're talking about breast cancer prevention, standard prevention guidelines, nobody's telling you to check your thyroid hormones. So I think this is really important. And I'm so grateful for you, Lauren, for the work that you're doing. And then also just for being here with us today to share this information. I really appreciate you.
Ranges, Red Flags, And Action
SPEAKER_01Of course. And one thing I just wanted to add before we pop off, too, is that your thyroid activity will change with hormonal transitions. So that's a really key piece to understand is that if you've recently had a baby, you've recently gone through menopause, gone on hormone replacement therapy, it's really important to look at your thyroid again because these hormonal transitions trigger the thyroid to shift its activity. And that can be a lot of times the trigger that causes some of these thyroid changes to start to happen. But thank you so much, Dion. Just wanted to throw that out there.
SPEAKER_00No, that's perfect. I'm happy you said that because I'm sure a lot of people listening are going through some of those transitions. So really helpful. Thank you so much, Lauren. Thank you all for listening. If you found this episode helpful, please share with your friends and family. I think this is just such important information to get out there, particularly because it's not like commonly talked about. So let's make sure we all help spread the word. And we'll see you again on the next Ground Root Podcast episode. Thanks, everyone.