Building Muscle To Age Well & Reduce Cancer Risk

In today's episode we are continuing the conversation around building resilience by looking at how building muscle supports healthy aging, metabolic health, and cancer prevention. 

I am joined by Kylie Fagnano who shares clear steps for safe strength training, protein targets, and short, effective HIIT sessions you can repeat for life.

Here is some of what we cover:

• muscle as a longevity organ and metabolic ally
• starting from any level with safe, progressive strength
• when bodyweight is enough and when to add load
• practical protein goals to trigger muscle synthesis
• HIIT basics for mitochondrial health and time‑crunched days
• mindset shift from restriction to construction
• action plans to choose your on‑ramp and build consistency

As always, if this conversation resonates with you, please follow the show, share it with someone who would benefit, and leave a review to help more listeners find us. Your support helps bring evidence-based, integrative tools to people navigating cancer and beyond.

More about today's guest & how to connect with her:

Kylie Fagnano is an integrative and functional dietitian.  She lives in Washington, DC with her husband and together, they own DC Strength & Nutrition.  She focuses on gut health and muscle health to support her patients with longevity and understanding how to feed themselves.

👉 Kylie's Website: https://dcstrengthandnutrition.com/ (you can sign-up to access their Free Exercise Library & Nutrition Info)

👉 Grab their 12-Week Strength Training Program HERE

👉 Follow Kylie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kylie.dcnutrition/ 

🌿 Let's Connect 🌿

Explore Coaching

Join Us On Substack 

Watch Episodes on YouTube 

Follow Us on Instagram

Transcript

A New Year, A New Lens On Resilience

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello and welcome back, everyone, to the Ground and Root Podcast. I'm your host and holistic cancer dietitian Dion Detraz. I am so excited to be joined today by a very special guest and friend. I can't wait for you to meet her. Last week, I encouraged us to start thinking about our resolutions a bit differently. We're in the start of a brand new year. There's limitless possibilities and potential and excitement about the new beginning of the year. And of course, we're anxious to jump right in to goals and resolutions and all the things. And in last week's episode, I really encouraged you to think about it a little bit differently, to consider the goal of building resilience as the underlying foundation for the year. So how do we become more resilient physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? And along those lines, today we're gonna talk about exercise as being one of those ways that we can build resilience, especially with strength training and especially with bursts of high intensity exercise, which is known as hormetic stressors. And this might not be something that's already in your game plan. Perhaps you're already of an avid walker, you do Pilates, you go to yoga, all the things, but maybe you're not thinking about it to this like degree of building resilience. So I'm excited for us to explore this topic. And of course, just like the benefits of exercise, all the things. There's so much we get to chat about today. So without further ado, I'm gonna introduce you to my friend and fellow registered dietitian, Kylie. She is also an integrative and functional dietitian like myself. She lives in Washington, D.C. with her husband. And together they own DC Strength and Nutrition. And I know you've had a bit of a journey getting to where you are now and where you started. So, Kylie, how about you just kick off with telling us a little bit more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Wonderful. Thank you so much, first of all, for the conversation, because I think the space of nutrition and movement and health and wellness and working out in the gym is prime for taking advantage of people in their most vulnerable ways. And to have a conversation about how to really anchor yourself if in those worlds so that you can be successful in your own way. It's a conversation that more of us should be having. And so I'm really grateful that you're having it and that you've invited me to be a possibility of adding to it. So thank you for that. Oh, you're so well. Yes, registered dietitian. I function in Washington, DC. That's where I have my practice, and my husband and I own a personal training gym. So I started in the field of integrative and functional nutrition, as you know, on really the gut health side of things, which I still do a tremendous amount of work in and love that kind of work. It's one of my favorite things. But being more in the strength training world and seeing the types of people that benefit the most from things like personal training has really helped add this extra component of muscle health and the wellness, truly the wellness in the most fundamental sense of that word that it offers the people that we work with. So it's been really exciting to add in that extra layer of muscle health and longevity into the gut health autoimmune sort of world that I typically operated in.

Defining Exercise For Different Starting Points

SPEAKER_04 3:24

That's awesome. And actually, I know we didn't speak about this off camera, but I do think that we'll probably have you back to talk about gut health too. Because obviously that is a very important topic as well. But today we'll keep it to exercise and muscle health and strength training and all of this. And what I would like us to do just to take us on a little bit of a journey here is, and because I really always try to be mindful that everybody's coming to this show with varying levels of knowledge. So some of you may already know a lot about strength and exercise and longevity, and some of you may not know much at all. So I want to start with the basics and then we'll get more technical. So let's start with just like exercise in general. And then we're gonna move into like muscle health, strength training, you know, high intensity exercise. Like, what does that mean? What are all those things? But when we talk about exercise in general, like what does that actually mean, Kylie? Like, how would you define that?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah, okay. So here's where right out of the gate, people start to get real confused, and immediately the sort of vagueness comes right into play. And I think, in my experience personally and clinically, when there is no black and white, this, that, it's immediately difficult for people because it means that there are decisions to make, it means that there are considerations to take, and that immediately becomes a barrier for people. So let's just talk about that. Exercise is gonna mean something inherently, it must mean something different, individual to individual.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

So, just as you said, all of you listening are coming in from a much different place. Some of you might be extraordinary athletes, some of you might be coming off of cancer treatment, some of you might be newly diagnosed, some of you might just be like, you know what, I'm in my 30s and I think I need to take better care of myself. Yeah, your starting point of what you would consider exercise is gonna look very different. Some people simply going for a walk is extreme exercise. That's true for some people. For others, it's literally the way that they commute to and from work. You know, if you live in a city here, there are lots of people here in DC. They don't own a car, they don't metro, they walk. And so it's not for them considered extra movement and exercise. It's what they must do. So understanding that everybody is going to be coming into what exercise is differently, and letting that be okay and standard, I think is a really important part of the conversation in general because it helps remove the understanding internally that a lot of us have that exercise has to look a certain way. Okay. So I would say if you're just walking, you're moving your body around. Okay, that is important, it is beneficial depending on where you're starting and where it is that you're trying to go. Okay, which are two things that if you are just getting started, those are two things that are going to be helpful for you to define. Where am I right now? Find the star that says you are here on the map, right? Where are you? And generally, where are you trying to go? Okay, it doesn't have to be a weight loss number, it doesn't have to be a percentage of muscle mass that you're trying to gain, particularly. It could simply be I want to move my body more. It could be quite literally that vague, okay? Or it could be very specific. The point is identify what those are so that then you can start to determine are the choices that I'm making with my exercise sensible based on where I am and where I'm trying to go. For example, you want to be able, you want to get stronger, okay? Just really vague. I just want to gain some strength. Then you set a goal of I'm gonna go for a walk three times a day, three times a week. Well, it's more movement, maybe, but it's not really gonna help get you stronger in the long run. That's the second piece, then. How long does your choice make sense? And when do you need to start making different choices? And so you and I can start to see right away how the average person is gonna get overwhelmed by this very quickly. Yeah. So I like to boil this all down and have people choose something that they can repeat. What can you do consistently? The consistency, the repetitions, this sort of repeatability of whatever your choice is matters more than anything when you're getting started. Would you agree? Gene find that is the case too.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Well, particularly if it's a brand new habit, right? If we're not doing it consistently, it's just gonna constantly feel difficult to do. We're constantly gonna be pulled back to whatever we were doing before. So if we want, yes, if we want to really reach the goal, we have to create some kind of consistency. And to your point, consistency that's sustainable, that's realistic. Can I actually do this for more than one week, right? Or two weeks. Yeah. Exactly. Or two months even. Yeah, right. Exactly.

Non‑Negotiable Case For Muscle And Aging

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Just starting fresh and new in the new year, how many of us, I know you and I are included in this, have said, I've got to do this thing, and you're like hot and heavy with it for even two months, but then March comes around and you're like, you know, I'll try that. 100%. Yeah, I'll do it. It's the most repeatable feeling in the world. I would argue though, when it comes to building muscle, when it comes to movement, activity, exercise, it's non-negotiable. And there are very few things that I speak quite that black and white about. But we see it in the literature, we have really good research, and we all as individuals, you and I, and everybody listening knows that when we see the older people in our lives, there are a lot of different versions. We see the older grandparents who are active, they travel, they're capable, they can live on their own, they can stand up off of it. You know, they can stand up out of a chair, they can safely sit down, they can pick something up, they're not falling. We see that. We also see the opposite. We see people in memory care. We see people who they're not safe to live at home simply because if they fell, they cannot get themselves back up. We see people lose their community and their sense of belonging in the world because they simply cannot participate anymore. Muscle and whatever exercise you choose to get there, which we can get into, really directly influences which of those paths you're heading into.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

That's that's such an important point, too. Because I think about, I imagine most of you listening, if you've fallen on this podcast in particular, a lot of what we do is talk about cancer prevention, but cancer prevention links right directly with longevity. It's like, how do we age healthfully, right? Like, how do we have a longer, healthier life? Not just like I want to live long, but to your point, not really be participating in my life because I'm not healthy and I'm not strong. And like you said, we know that the amount of muscle you're able to maintain through your older years is directly linked to your longevity and the quality of your life as you get older.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

We know that the more muscle tissue, the more healthy muscle tissue an individual has as they age, the better aging they're going to have. And I'm being intentionally broad, right? You can break that down into more specifics. We know, for example, there's less brain atrophy as one ages when they have more muscle mass. Metabolically, you're safer, you're healthier. Just simply to our point of being able to move around and participate in things, you are able to do more, but you're also able to do it in a safer manner. Right? This there's a physical therapist actually that I heard say this and uh practices a bit more of a holistic approach. And she was explaining, you know, part of the reason why it's important to build strength in your body is because your body will either feel safe to perform movements because it inherently knows that it can handle that, or it will not feel safe to perform certain movements. Now, I'm not talking here about, you know, squatting and bench pressing movements. I'm talking about does the body feel safe enough to bend over to pick something up and trust that it can pull itself back up? Does the body feel safe enough to walk down a flight of stairs, or is it going to make you fall because it knows it can't handle it? That's so my recommendation for folks is forget all of the details, forget how many times a week, forget the rest, forget all of that just for a moment, and think more strategically about what you can repeat over a you know the rest of your life. Don't need to like a month or a week. I would say this is something that I need to do the rest of my life. It's non-negotiable if I want to participate in the world as I age. It's really yeah, I love that.

Getting Started Safely With Strength Training

SPEAKER_04 12:57

I think it, yeah, it's a good reframe. Right. And we can get into the specifics of we will, of course, about like how to get started and like what that might that look like. But I think just having that shared perspective of the goals. Like the goal is healthy aging, healthy, strong aging, and something that we can repeat easily, you know, sustainably going forward. And I want to take a moment just to speak to, because I know some of you listening are moving through a cancer journey. You might be deep in cancer treatment and you're like, hey, I used to be super active. And now it's like it's exhausting to walk around the block. Obviously, that is temporary, right? So what you do now will look differently once you're post-treatment, once you're a year or two out from treatment, like that will continue to evolve. But the underlying goals are the same. And I want to take a moment too, just in case for those you, those of you listening, if you don't already know this, we do have really good research around how exercise can still support you through treatment. So even if you're like, I used to run marathons and now I can barely walk around the block, obviously that's not fun. But in the scheme of how to support your recovery, that walk around the block is still gonna be huge. It's gonna help improve your energy, your strength. You're gonna have less side effects from treatment, you're gonna have better tolerance to treatment, you're gonna have better sleep, better immune function, better blood counts. Like whatever you can do, right? Whatever is true for you, even if it's different than what it used to be, is still gonna provide you with tremendous benefit. I just wanted to throw that angle in there. In case you're listening, you're like, that all sounds amazing, but there's no way I can do like weight training right now. It is really important that you just understand how it impacts you right now is what's most important. So if it is work for you right now, you're still gonna get that benefit, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:51

You know, you're bringing up a really vital point here. And you're speaking in terms of cancer treatment, what used to be, what maybe not be right now. And I would even, you know, extrapolate that because even for all of us, for every individual, there are really different phases of life where there are different reasonable goals that can be accomplished. So I do think that whatever you're doing now, if it's different from what it used to be for any reason whatsoever, so long as the consistent thing is that you are doing something, it will always be better than doing nothing. And I think holding that as a truth as opposed to somebody like patting you on the head and making you feel better for something you feel terrible about a really important context because it's factual. And I think that permission for our consistent habits to shift and change as our life phases dictate is the it's essential. We know that life is not consistent. We know that you know, there are for women, for example, in particular, you might be, you might be pregnant, you might be breastfeeding, you might be postpartum, you might be going into menopause, you might be post-menopause. All of these different things call for sort of a they deserve a rebrand, if you will, to work for people. And that's why I think if you can just get into the mindset of no matter what it looks like, my standard for myself is that I will do something. And if you can make that standard true for yourself and really stick to it, the ups and downs and the rebranding along the way is going to be lighter and more successful as a result. And I do think the mindset of it being a standard, it meaning movement exercise, maintaining muscle health as a standard for ourselves, is a really helpful way of thinking about it. A lot of us can think about, you know, at work, you would very rarely find a person who's no, I don't really care. I'll dip below the standard for my work that, you know, I don't really care what people think about me. You know, some people, sure. Most of us are like, I would never let my boss think I'm not doing a good job. I'm gonna nail that standard and exceed it. But we don't hold them for ourselves sacred in the same way. And I think this is an invitation to think about that. Why? You know, that's a whole internal journey, I think, for a lot of us, but really setting that. And this is non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

That's such a good point. That's such a good point. All right, we can circle back to some of the benefits, but I would like us to actually talk about where to get started because the benefits are so vast that honestly, I feel like every provider I've ever talked to, if exercise could be a pill, it would be the most prescribed pill because it just works on every single system in the body. It's like anything you want improved, exercise can help you improve it, you know, whether that's cancer or not, and whether it's your brain, your heart, your lungs, your gut, all of it, right? So we can get back to some of that nitty-gritty, but like where do we start? Let's go from the person who maybe can do very little right now. So it's, you know, and then how do we progress from there? What would you recommend?

Home Routines, Progression, And Gym Confidence

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Okay, so a couple ways that you could think about this. And for each person, you're gonna have to really think about who you are and what you know you're willing to do, you know, a little bit. However, I would say for everybody, even if you're brand new and just getting started, strength training. Strength training. You're gonna hear people say, lift heavy weights. Yes, that's true. I yes, we see it in the research. I see it personally, I see it with our patients and our clients here. Lift something heavy. But let me just tell you, for some people, that heavy is five pounds, and that's beautiful because for that individual who's starting, you're doing it. That five pounds is heavy for you. Now, here's where we start getting to where people get lost in the mumble jumble because they'll start it's hard for them, but doable, whatever it is, right? Strength training. I'm talking when I say strength training, I'm saying you're lifting with a dumbbell, you're lifting with kettlebells, you're using a barbell, you're using machines in like a gym setting, something that has weight that is resisting your movement, something that you need to push or pull against in order to fire building muscle in the most basic sense. That's what strength training is.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Please Can I interrupt you for a second? It would you say, as opposed to calisthenics, as opposed to using your body as weight, how would you make that different question? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Good question. Body weight training. Meaning, for example, this would be if you were just doing a squat in person, you're not holding anything in your body. Yeah, that's helpful for some people up until a certain point. Because the idea is that we want to continue to build more muscle. That is the point of strength training and its most fundamental component. You're building muscle. So if you're not continuing to put more resistance on the body, then you will stop building muscle at a certain point. That's just the way that it's gonna work. So if you're just getting started, absolutely brand new, you don't even want to think about a dumbbell, you can do these bodyweight movements, a push-up, for example, right? Which is hard, can I just say it is not easy, so challenging. They really are, even for people who are very strong and can do them, they're designed to be challenging. The point, however, is that past a certain point of which will be different for each person, okay. You can't depend on your own body weight being adequate to continue the process of building muscle. Okay. So starting out with nothing is a great starting point. Simply going for a walk is something, it is a starting point. But if you are a person listening, we're like, oh good, I go for walks, that's great. Okay, you need to push yourself then. You need to start taking the next step because if that's what you're used to doing and you haven't progressed it at all, then you're stalled and you're missing a really big important opportunity. Okay. So for a next step, maybe you put ankle weights on or you carry small dumbbells. That's adding some resistance to your walk. That's an option for in my opinion. I would get into a gym or get a couple of pieces of equipment at the house that you can utilize. And you I'm telling you, the programming and all of that when you're just getting started is not the point. Safety is the point. You need to be performing things safely. My husband says all the time, who's a trainer, live to lift another day. If you're doing things in a manner that's not safe and not smart, and you're just gonna ruin the ability to stick with your consistency, you're missing the point entirely. You're missing the point. Yeah, I like that. I think though, getting out of your head that you are not a person who goes to the gym, wherever along the line you learn that about yourself, if that's something that you resonate with, if you're listening to the conversation, you're like, yeah, this is for other people, I'm not that. I want to tell you how wrong you really are. Gently and lovingly, wrong. You're wrong. Somebody made you think that you made you think that. It's a story, it's not true. Because unless you plan on being a human being who can't function in their world at some point, then you are a person who goes to the gym. That's as simple as it gets.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

Okay. I actually probably needed to hear that myself, you know, because I have had periods of time where I have gone to the gym, but not in a long time. And I I have certainly been the person who's like, meh, you know, I have my thing I do at home, and that feels good. But I just turned 50 and I'm like, I know that I need to up my strength training game. So I think that was perfectly timed, Kylie. Thank you. I hear you.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I only say that because it was my story too.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Up with the sort of you're not an athletic person, you're not a strong person, you know, you dance and you're delicate and you did, which is true. And I realize also I can be a I can be strong and I can feel good and strong and sustain that. So I offer that experience to all of your listeners because I think it's the it's actually the beginning, the mindset of it needs to start there if you're gonna have a shot at keeping the consistency.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Okay. Okay. So just to recap that, if you're if you're starting from scratch, obviously doing some things at home is great. And having some calisthenics, doing some body weight is a good way to start building strength in your body. At some point, though, and Kylie, maybe I should ask you this: like, how would you know? I guess maybe just when it starts to get easier, you're like, there will come a point that you will now need to push yourself to the next level. And even if that's buying some equipment from home or buying, like you said, maybe ankle weights or I don't know how you feel about bands, like resistance bands, but like maybe something that you could add in at home just to continue to push yourself, right?

Protein, Leucine, And Muscle Synthesis Basics

SPEAKER_03 24:45

That's exactly the recap is perfect. That's okay. And to answer your question about how do you know, you know, I would say most of us, not to over exaggerate, but I do think this is probably true, most of us really undersell what we are capable of in terms of strength and lifting something off the ground. Okay, I would say that. So if you are doing your routine at home and you're like, okay, good, I did it, I checked the box. If you are not finding the end of your workout challenging to get through, if you are not finding it actually difficult to get through the rest of whatever your movements that you're doing are, then it's time to move it up. I think in a really vague sense, that's a really good way of thinking about okay, I did that, it was a little bit too easy, it's time to bump it up. I have no issue with people doing things at home. I think it's fantastic. The only thing that the only reason I say get into a gym is because they just have it all there for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

So you can have somebody, you don't have to go into a gym knowing how to do anything, by the way. That is not a requirement for doing it anyway. Any one of these gyms and places that have like big equipments and maybe, you know, I'm thinking of like the planet fitnesses and the LA fit, you know, things like that. Trust me, the people who work there are dying to teach you how to use the equipment. They're dying to show you the information that they know and share it with you. So just ask. That's all you have to do. I don't know what I'm doing in here. Can you please show me how to use this equipment? That's it. And they'll show you. And then once you get over the hump of not knowing, you only have to do it once.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

I was thinking that too. Like, even if I would say, I mean, you can correct me if you think differently, but I feel like even if you're, let's say, gonna start with a home routine, and when you get to the point where you're like, okay, this is, you know, this is not as challenging anymore. And I just want to call back to for those of you listening or who had listened to last week's episode, when we talk about building resilience in the body, this is the act of putting stress, like controlled stress on the body so that we have to push past it. That is how we build resilience, right? So it has to be challenging, whether that's mentally, emotionally, or physically, for us to get stronger at whatever that thing is. So I think just to piggyback off of what you said, yeah, if it's too easy, it's not really building resilience, you know, like we need to have a little bit of discomfort for it to be like, okay, like I'm getting stronger. So let's say you get to that point and now you're gonna add in some weights at home or you're gonna add in a band or routine. Even at that point, it probably would make sense to meet with a trainer, to meet with somebody who's gonna show you how to do it properly, I'm guessing, right? Because we do want you to be safe and injury, of course, is not the goal here.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

I'm incredibly biased, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:49

Well, of course. Your husband is a trainer, but still I think it makes sense, right? Even if your husband wasn't a trainer.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Right. I think just logically, here's here's a good analogy that Brian actually uses a lot. If you were learning how to play the piano, it's possible that you could sit down at a keyboard, pull up a YouTube video, and like kind of piece your way through it and probably be able to play something simple and fine. But if you wanted to learn how to play the piano, you'd hire a piano instructor. Yeah. But for some reason, because we all have bodies and we can all move, we don't think about training and personal training and learning how to do it in quite the same way. It's really interesting. Nutrition is the same. Oh, 100%. I was gonna say that it's the same for us. So there's this like assumption that we shouldn't need help with it, which is so wrong.

unknown 28:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

And I would say too, you don't have to commit to personal training and the investment of it forever. You could just simply, you know, take a few lessons, learn what you need. And there are all different setups that work for all different types of people. But to your point, really being able to know in your mind, I'm safe when I perform this movement on my own is absolutely invaluable because otherwise your system is gonna be like pushing back on what you're trying to push forward with. And it is a setup for disaster. We've seen it happen. Knowing how to think through something safely is it's worth getting some guidance on.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Yeah. Okay. I think that was also good for me to hear. So I'm getting as much out of this conversation as I hope all of our listeners are as well. Okay, so we've got a progression here, right? We've got starting at home, adding some resistance at home, working with a trainer, getting to a gym. I would say at some point, most likely, even adding some of the pieces at home, you probably are gonna need a gym at some point because you're gonna need access to bigger weights and or different machines, or so that you're making sure you're doing the whole body kind of thing. I would love for you to share a little bit about, because okay, just to go back for a minute to like exercise in general, we know that there's cardiovascular benefits to exercise, right? So like hard and lung benefits. We know there's really good cancer prevention benefits, cancer recovery benefits. Some of these benefits, though, are tied to the muscle. So I want us to speak a little bit more about like why strengthening, because even to your point saying, you know, even if you're doing nothing, let's start with building strength, you know. So like that should be the mindset that we're thinking about. Part of when I link it back to cancer, you know, we think about metabolism and metabolic markers, and we know that the more muscle mass you have, the better, right? The lower your blood sugar, your insulin, better immune response, lower inflammation, even more oxygenation. Like all of this is gonna help, it's gonna create an environment in your body that's gonna make it much harder for cancer to grow. So that's a win. But there's also a lot of other things tied to muscle health or mass in the body and longevity in general. So could you speak to some of that in particular, like the strength, you know, why muscle?

Practical Meals, Appetite, And Digestion Tips

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Absolutely. I also think this could be a good opportunity to pull in some of the complementary components like nutrition, right? When we're talking about building muscle, like how, right? What is the point of all of what we're saying here? Yeah, and it's important to come back to the point is that you want to build muscle. You want to build the muscle. We often hear that skin is the largest organ in the body. It's muscle. Muscle is the largest organ, it is an organ, it secretes hormones that have a role and play a role on our hormones, our other hormones, right? Like our hormones of the body, it plays a role in inflammatory processes. Muscle plays a role in, of course, we said metabolic health, in aging, in your brain health, in immunity. So when you have one organ, right, we hear about the heart all of the time. Actually, we hear about the gut and the microbiome all of the time.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Yeah, more so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

When you're talking about muscle as one single organ and trying to optimize it, it's so interesting how simple it becomes. When you're talking about, for example, the gut, you've got all these different things, and there's fiber, and there's a thing, and a probiotic and a prebiotic, and then you're sick, so you need a whole protocol that's 14 different supplements. You know what's so simple about looking at muscle as an organ? It almost doesn't matter. You don't have to know the individual precisely what's happening downstream. All you really need to know is that when I build more of this organ, which is interesting, we can't build more liver, right? Right, right. You know, we build more of this organ, it protects you all around. It is one of those things that we know across the board, individuals with more of this organ, more muscle mass, have an easier time with everything. And in your world, you know, you're talking about cancer prevention, which even if that was the only benefit, would still be huge, right? And I will say it is somewhat miraculous that we have this ability inside our own body with with without having to put extra stuff into it, right? We haven't even talked about food, we haven't even talked about supplements, those are all options, but they're not required. So just simply the foundation of being willing to hold yourself to a standard where you are consistently working on building or at a certain point just maintaining, at the very least, muscle tissue as an organ. Think about it this way if the heart deteriorated as you aged, nobody would ever run the risk. You would do whatever you could to if the heart build, if the heart was an organ that was building like muscle was, don't think about it that way for some reason. So I would I actually think the answer to your question is to keep it as simple as possible. Knowing in your head that downstream there are all of these extraordinary impacts, all you have to know is that in order to receive them, build muscle. I think that keeping it simple allows people to really connect to it in a bit more of a implementable way. Do you find that too when you make things a bit simple?

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Oh, for sure. I to your and you said that actually in the very beginning about it is, even though I tend to feel like life is not very black and white, like it is difficult to put things in like a this or that when I feel like there's so much gray. But the reality is living in the gray can feel super overwhelming and difficult because you just don't know where to go or where to start or what do I do, or it's just too much, there's too much choice. So I think narrowing it down to just the goal. So again, a goal for this next year, building resilience. Part of the way we build resilience is by building muscle. We build muscle by physically pushing our muscles. So starting with wherever you are and gradually, safely working with experts, ideally, to, you know, to get you stronger and stronger. And then you mentioned that there are other ways we can help with that muscle building. So let's talk a little bit about food or supplemental. Like what else can we do to support muscle growth?

SPEAKER_03 35:23

I want to add one little thought to please, yeah. I think it's important for just knowing that everybody listening is coming in from a different spot. You might be the type of person that really operates on an all or nothing basis. And I think that's it's not usually a good setup for most of us, but it puts us back into that black and white situation. But if you are really, really starting from nothing, perhaps you just are like really deconditioned, you don't really move around at all, and you're hearingless and you're feeling motivated and you want to go straight to a gym, please, Jill. Please go straight to a trainer if that's what you want. If you're listening to this, you're like, oh, maybe, oh, do I need to go for a walk around the block for five months first? No, no, you don't. Any good, decent trainer is gonna be able to take an individual off the street and do something meaningful. So if that is you, please don't think that you need to take these little baby steps. The baby steps are there for those of you who require them. Everybody's a little different. But if you're the person who likes to jump right into things, jump, jump, jump. Your trainer will keep you safe and help manage things so that you're recovering well and staying safe. But please don't think that you need to earn the right to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

To walk into the gym, yeah. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

You simply being is the is you've done it.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Yeah, you're welcome. You get to go. Yeah, you have the invitation.

HIT Explained: Intensity, Mitochondria, Longevity

SPEAKER_03 36:46

That's right. I had that on my heart to say, and I wanted to that's perfect there. Okay. Now, when we're talking about sort of the extras, well, extra is not the right word. When you're talking about the complementary component, obviously, nutrition is the tail as old as 10. Nutrition and movement, they do go hand in hand. The aspect of building muscle when it comes to nutrition can be something really specific. And I think it's actually a nice little nugget for people to latch on to because it does give a precise recommendation to get started with. So, when we're talking about food, the body has the ability to build muscle tissue out of the certain nutrients from our food before you even get to the gym. Okay, to be clear, they both must happen together. This is part of the non-negotiable. You cannot do one without the other, or you're missing opportunities. But we can turn a process on in the body called muscle protein synthesis. Muscle protein synthesis, essentially the body's ability to build and protect muscle tissue before you even worry about the movement of peas. Okay, great. So we know that protein, right? You build muscle in one of two ways, right? Through our resistance training and exercise and strength training, and through dietary protein. Okay, protein. Why do we eat protein? We eat protein for all of the amino acids. So if you go back to seventh grade biology, everybody looks at me. You remember amino acids are the building blocks of protein. There are 20 amino acids and they get put together in all these different combinations to produce endless things that our body requires. Okay, one of the things it does is build muscle. Okay. Out of these amino acids, there is one called leucine. Okay, leucine. And it's found naturally in our food. Okay, it's found in higher amounts in our animal proteins, found in lower amounts in our plant proteins. Nothing wrong with either. That's just that's just true. Okay. We know that when the body receives a bolus amount of two and a half grams of leucine, then it can kickstart this process called muscle protein synthesis. Wow. Why would we not take advantage first thing in the morning to turn on your body's ability to build muscle?

SPEAKER_04 39:15

I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Tell us how. If you look at a label, finally I have a snack sitting around, I don't have one. If you look at a label on your food, you'll never see this is the amount of leucine in this product. Unless it is a protein powder. Sometimes they really know their audience and they will add that in. But for the most part, it's not something that you will ever see. So, to your point, how do you know? Oh, I'm getting enough leucine to turn on muscle protein synthesis. Don't be that person. That's annoying. It's simple when you think about it in terms of grams of protein. 30 grams of animal protein, because remember, leucine is higher in animal proteins. 30 grams of an animal protein is going to turn that on. For you. It will always contain at least two and a half grams of leucine. So, what's it not even execution? It means when you wake up and you have your breakfast, make sure you're getting 30 grams of animal protein. Turn on muscle protein synthesis. Now it's interesting. We know from research that the two meals that make a really measurable difference is the first meal of the day and the last meal of the day. So if nothing else, anchor your day before you go into an overnight fast. Make sure you're getting at least 30 grams. Turn muscle protein synthesis on before you go into sleep so that as you're sleeping, you're resting, you're a repairing, you're also building muscle. Okay. Now, some point over the night, probably about four hours in, that process will turn off, and that's okay. You'll sleep, you'll wake up in the morning, turn it on again. We see that these two meals actually make the biggest difference. We don't have research on the middle meal, so we don't actually know. So we for now just extrapolate and say your whole day's worth of protein, you're gonna spread it out, but get at least 30 to 40 grams in the first and last meals. If you did nothing else, that on its own will protect and help support building muscle tissue, which is quick. It's not that ideal. 30 grams when you think and here's the great example two eggs and three strips of turkey bacon, 30 grams of protein.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

Yeah, that's doable. It sounds maybe more than it actually is if you're not used to tracking your protein or thinking about a high protein meal.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Right, that's exactly right. Now, when it comes to appetite, when it comes to maybe you're in cancer treatment, some of the things you're gonna maybe want to wait for because you just might not have the capacity for it.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

Yeah. However, we do know that high protein intake during cancer treatment does support treatment. It does support better recovery and better energy and strength during treatment. So if, like for anybody who's worked with me, any of my clients know that we are stressing protein and 30 grams is not that far off of what we would normally recommend, anyways. It might be trickier if things don't taste good or you're not as hungry. We might have to be more creative about how you get it. But but yeah, I would say that the amount would still be relevant.

Action Plan: On‑Ramp, Consistency, Next Steps

SPEAKER_03 42:23

I agree. I agree. And if you really have very small appetite for whatever reason, really focusing on that first or and or last meal of the day is a juicy opportunity. I think you can really get a lot out of just starting. When I'm working with even not, I you know, I don't work with cancer patients. When I'm working with the average person, it's almost always the first part of our first step is build the foundation. Start with the first meal of the day. Now, I know that everybody has an opinion about protein shapes and protein powders, and I think the conversations are important. There are a lot of variety of quality out there. That is true. However, it is a tool, and I do think for some people, using that tool is a more optimal option than doing nothing, yeah, or waking up and having you know, cereal that's got nothing else to offer. I'm not against cereal, don't get me wrong. You know, I'm not painting good or bad food cereal.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Okay, but two eggs, three strips of turkey bacon in your cereal.

unknown 43:33

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Right, right. Anchor it with that protein. And you've mentioned, you know, not only is this gonna help build muscle, but this supports your blood sugar, supports your metabolism, you're gonna think better, you're gonna sleep better, your energy is more stable, your hormones are more stable, it's just there's no lose here. There's no lose here.

unknown 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

You're gonna notice as you start playing around with some of this that you're putting into your system some different foods. So if you've noticed changes in bowel movement, if you notice that you feel really bloated, if you notice that you just feel slightly uncomfortable or certainly more full, normal, all normal, and your body will adjust to it. Some digestive enzymes in the beginning can be very supportive as a tool, but your body will adjust and just know that and be okay with it. It might be a little uncomfortable because you're doing something different. It might also be an argument for really being gentle. Get the first meal correct, give yourself a week, worry about the last meal, and then move forward from there. But really turning on that muscle protein synthesis supports and complements the work that you're hopefully going to be doing with building strength through movement as well. So the two together is where we really see this complementary impact, and it really has quite a long lifespan to it because you can repeat it. It's repeatable.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

Yeah, right. As soon as you get used to eating that amount, then it's amount of protein. It then is just easier to keep doing it because now it just feels normal, right? It's just the initial that if right, if you are a cereal or an oatmeal lover, it might be rethinking how do you add in 30 grams of protein to that meal or experiment with different options. See what you like.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Deserves the thinking. In fact, I would say this is another one of those things where you can choose not to do it, but why would you miss out on that opportunity? Right. Like walking past a hundred dollar bill because you're just I don't normally pick things up off the street.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Like, why would you miss that opportunity? That's a good analogy. Yeah. So I would say that this is one of those things where for a smaller amount of effort and a little bit more of a segmented thinking, which can be helpful for people, is something worth doing that will truly measurably make a difference.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

Yeah. I love that you said that too, because I think in the world, in particular in this world, but even if you're just, you know, anybody scrolling Instagram these days, looking at all the different longevity and like biohacking things that are out there, the list is endless of what you could be doing and spending your time and energy and money on, right, for your health. But this, these are like the basic building blocks that are gonna give you the biggest return when we think about long-term health, longevity, cancer prevention, this like getting enough protein, turning on muscle protein synthesis, building more muscle with resistance training, right? These are foundational pieces that we have to start, all the like fancy stuff, all the hacks are not gonna replace like the basics, right? So, again, as you're thinking through this year, this brand new year, what are your goals and your intentions? Let's like do what we can to really strengthen up the foundations. Make sure these are these non-negotiables are just there and easy to do, like they're just part of your routine now.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

You know, you're talking a lot about resiliency, and it's interesting, you cannot build resiliency off of nothing. So the question becomes yeah, okay, I'm building resiliency, I'm on board, okay, that makes sense. From what? Physically, yeah. Where is this coming from? You know, you have to have something that's anchoring you, you know, emotionally and spiritually, that might be religion or a meditation practice or all sorts of things that anchor you in something. What is it physically? That's the question. And you're right. This is a place where I do think people earn the right. You earn the right to deal with the fancy like trends and hacks, and some of them have a place. They do. It's not like neighing on all of them, but you do not get to earn the right to play around in that stuff until you have your foundation solid. Who cares? What are you adding it on top of a broken system? It's gonna fall through the cracks, right? All of that energy and effort and mindset around doing something really good for yourself falls flat and it's very discouraging. It is not a setup for success for people. You've got to start with this stuff, and part of the reason people skip it is because it's hard. But that's the point. I guarantee you, every single person listening has done things in their life that are so much harder than getting into a gym. I know you have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

That is the yeah, that is the essence too of building resilience. Again, going back to hormetic stressors. It's this idea that we can do hard things and actually we benefit when we do hard things. Like our body becomes stronger, we become healthier. And listen, nothing is as hard as going through a disease or an illness, right? I can 100% say that if you are dealing with that right now, you would much rather be dealing with going to the gym and working with a personal trainer. So I think it's really just about putting that in perspective and meeting where you are, knowing that there's the long-term goal, but eve, you know, but you can, regardless of where you're starting, we can all get to a stronger place.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yes. Simple, simple, yes. And it's never too late. So maybe you're listening and you are, you know, already an older adult. Are you a human face? Are you walking around? Do you have bones and muscle? Not too late ever. Right. The slower, you know, as we age, it's harder, especially for women, it's harder to put muscle on, but it is not impossible and it's not too late.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

Yeah. Okay, before we wrap up, I really appreciate your time. And I know we're a bit over for what I told you we would do. So thank you for your patience. But I just want to speak at least a little bit to what is high intensity, like interval training. Like, what is that? And why is that helpful? Or like, how would we integrate that piece into our goals?

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Yeah, okay. So when it comes to HIT, first of all, I think that even in the industry, there is not necessarily a totally agreed upon official definition. HIT, H-I-I-T stands for high intensity interval training. So there's interval training where maybe you walk for 30 seconds and then you stop. Maybe you run for 30 seconds and then you walk for 30 seconds. So, yeah, any sort of intervals of movement and rest would be considered helpful training at its most basic form. The version of hit that becomes important is the high intensity component of it, which is gonna look a little bit different. There are a lot of very scientific sort of definitions that certain percentages of VO2 max and certain percentages of ability to do a certain type of lift that is not helpful for the average person. So you can like dive into the research if you're really interested in it and you'll see a lot of those numbers. I think the more important thing is this becomes an honest conversation with yourself. Am I pushing myself? Am I actually doing this movement to 90% of what I physically can actually do, or nearly 100% of my capacity to like really go for it? Yes or no. And so the reason that we see HIT to be so impactful for people is a couple of things. First of all, it's a much shorter uh investment in time. But for people where time is a barrier, HIT training can be a really wonderful solution. We can see, let me back up here. Part of what HIT does with that sort of a period of time, and this can be as short as 20 seconds of high intensity movement. This could be running, it could be on a bike, it could be jumping jacks, it could be many different things. So a period of high intensity for argument's sake, we'll say 20 seconds, followed by a period of rest and recovery. This could be 60 seconds, and then repeating this a number of times. This is high-intensity interval training. It could look like anything. You could do sprints, you could be on a bike, you could do kettlebell swings, there's a million different things that you could do. There's no right or wrong way to perform a movement. What we see happens is that with as low as one minute, this is really mind-blowing. As low as one minute, we have research that shows that one minute collectively of high-intensity movement is adequate to create new mitochondria in our cells. So the real kind of act here is on the mitochondria. The mitochondria got back to biology and sun grade, sort of the powerhouse of the cell, and it really is deeply connected to longevity. One of the things that happens to our mitochondria as we age is that they stop cleaning up in the cells and it puts us at risk for all sorts of disease.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Okay, so when including cancer.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah. So when we have something in our toolbox that for one minute of effort and time can actually impact the body's ability to maintain its sort of powerhouse.

SPEAKER_04 53:23

Yeah, that's huge.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

And just to be clear, this is not necessarily, I think in the study actually, it was 20 seconds of high intensity, followed by a period of rest from 20 seconds to 60 seconds. I forget what the detail was, but it wasn't even one minute. One minute at full intensity is very difficult.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

20 seconds, I think, is very hard as well. It's a it could be hard. So you don't have heart with that, but in this particular, they did 20 seconds of rest, 20 seconds of rest, 20 seconds of rest. And that's it. I think the total of all of it was 10 minutes long with one minute of actual work. And they found that was enough to impact positively the mitochondria itself.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Even the busiest of us would would probably fail to really be truthful if we didn't have one minute.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

Yeah. Or even the 10 minutes, like you said, like one minute of 10, right? I love thinking about activities in 10 minute intervals because I think, and this is something, it's a totally completely different topic, but I have talked about before how just 10 minutes of connecting to the earth completely resets your nervous system, which is incredible. So if that can happen in 10 minutes, and then we can do this exercise piece in 10 minutes, like it doesn't, we're not talking about right, like hours of effort for you to get some pretty incredible benefits.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

What you're saying is so important because ultimately this whole conversation means absolutely nothing if people cannot figure out a way to implement it. It means nothing, it's just more information for people to have. If it's not presented in a way that can be implementable, and that is the problem with strength training for people. There's way too much information, and people can't feel safe to make a choice. This is something that you require no equipment for. This is a body weight thing. This is not HIT training, it is not for muscle building. That's important. They're separate things cardiovascularly. This is in that category. Okay, hit is not typically something where you're going to be progressively increasing weight. It's about intensity. Okay. Body weight is great for this, no problem. Okay. If you've got like a resistance bike, or if your gym has one, you can often set it from 10 seconds on 20 seconds rest and just repeat that a number of times. All right. Now we said one minute or less 10 minutes is the bare minimum, but that doesn't mean you need to stop there. You could do, you know, two or three bouts of that 10 minutes throughout your day, or maybe three days a week or two days a week, whatever you can actually repeat, right? We're always at what are you actually gonna do with this information?

SPEAKER_04 56:07

Yeah. Okay. So where let's wrap it up by by really giving people like where what do they do next? Where do they go? Like, how do they like you've convinced me this is I'm gonna do this year. Like, this is very important, easy to do. Where do I start?

SPEAKER_03 56:25

Okay. I would ask yourself what your on-ramp is. What feels like you have the least amount of resistance to start? Is it on the nutrition side or is it on the movement side? Whichever those things are, if it's the nutrition, I would love to see people nailing that 30 grams first and last meal minimum. That's a whole separate conversation. Um, that is not adequate for a full day, but if you're changing your habits to make sure you're getting at least that, you're in the right direction. So if this on-ramp for you feels like movement and that's what you're feeling excited about, then I would get into a progressive strength training program. Start by telling yourself, I am a person that does this, I am a person that builds muscle, and thinking about in general, what am I giving to myself as opposed to starting this year off with resolutions that are like, I'm not gonna do this, I'm not gonna do that, I'm gonna say no to this, I'm gonna lose weight, stop that, and think about I'm gonna build muscle. The change in mindset is extraordinary. So building muscle, saying yes to protein, giving nourishing, saying yes to much better mindset. I would get into that strength training program. Tell yourself you're a person that does that, or else you're gonna be a person who doesn't enjoy life.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

Gonna have you have two choices, basically. That's what Kylie's narrowing it down for us. We've got two options. I am someone who likes to strength trade, or I don't enjoy my older years.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

I hate to be so dramatic about it, but yeah, we see people experiencing these choices all of the time. So that would be my recommendation. If you are already a person who is moving moving around, you're in the gym, you're doing strength training, I would consider adding in, you know, one or two days of some sort of hit training. You can even do this actually, if you like, do it at the end of your strength training so that you don't have to add a whole extra day. Sometimes that's a helpful meddling bit. And alternatively, if you are a person that likes to run, you really like cardiovascular work. That part is easy for you. You need to start getting into the gym and building muscle with the strength training. So I would say observe one, where are you now? Coming back to this.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

Yep.

Resources, Program Links, And Closing

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Where do you need to go based on where you are? And what is the path of least resistance that you can get started with? Remembering that all of this to build resiliency and the nutrition, the protein, the building of muscle become non-negotiable very quickly. Earn the right to do the fancier, more fun optimizing stuff by having that foundation underneath you.

SPEAKER_04 59:08

I love that. Thank you so much, Kylie. This was so informative. Thank you, listeners too, for being here. I hope you got a lot out of the I got a lot out of this, even though, like, I know the basic physiology of things, it's just a different lens of what's important and what to prioritize. And I hope that everybody listening got at least half of what I got out of it. I think it was so great. Kylie, I know you actually have a physical space. So can you take a minute to just talk about that in case anybody listening actually lives close to you and they want to come see you in person? And then if there's any other way that people can connect with you, I would love that.

SPEAKER_03 59:46

Yes, we do. We have an in person gym and nutrition place here in Washington, DC. So if anybody's in that area, but we work virtually with people all of the time. So these strength and nutrition is a really easy way to reach. On our website, we have an exercise library, which you've got free access to. So if you are playing around with things at home and you wanted to do that, you're welcome to. And also, I can send you if you'd like Dion to share with everybody. We have a 12-week strength training program where if you click on all of the links, it'll show you how to do the exercises safely. Maybe that would be that's perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

Are you kidding me? I didn't even know that you had this. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

Share that if anybody wants to.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:28

Yes. We'll make sure to link to all of those things in the show notes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

That sounds really good. Yeah, that would be a really fun thing to do. And yeah, we work both training virtually works really well for people. If you're a person who doesn't really feel like they want to go into a gym or you have a home gym, this is a really easy way. You don't even need to have a home gym. We do a lot of really good work with, like you were saying, bands, dumbbells, and simple stuff. So that would be an option. And of course, nutrition you could do virtually all the time, no problem.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Yeah. So great. Thank you so much, Kylie. I so appreciate you. And I appreciate your energy and just what you brought here for us today.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

I'm really grateful for your willingness to have the conversation in a little bit of a different way, a way that is helpful for people. Again, we can't implement it. Who cares?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

So thank you. Right, exactly. And it it changes the conversation a little bit about okay, that my New Year's resolution, I'm gonna start going to the gym to like, why? Why are we going to the gym? We're going to the gym to build muscle so that we can age healthy so we can prevent cancer. There's so much more deeper, there's so much more deeper reasons, right? And we can actually find a path that's easy and sustainable for each of us.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

Yes, we can. We can. It is you are a person, people listening, you are a person who does this thing. So if somebody else got to tell you that you were not, I would like to be able to tell you that you are. So if it can happen that easily, you are. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

She just told you you are. You are. So if you had to believe somebody else, you may as well believe me. 100%. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. And everybody listening, thank you so much. And if you enjoy what you're learning here on the Ground Root Podcast, please share with your friends, share with your family. Help us spread the word. Make sure you like and subscribe and all the things so that you get alerted every week we release a new episode and we will continue our conversation next week. I look forward to talking with you again then. Bye, everyone.